Once a newspaper touches a story, the facts are lost forever, even to the protagonists.
Norman Mailer

ANGRY MOB

We read the papers everyday


Search this site


Your Ad Here

Stats since 7/04/09

http://www.wikio.co.uk

Notice
  • Guest user account is not properly configured. Please set 'Username of Guest' option to the Username of registered user. guest_username="guest"

    --
    yvComment solution, version="1.24.0"
'You can't talk about immigration' PDF Print E-mail
Written by Uponnothing   
Wednesday, 28 April 2010 18:54

'You can't talk about immigration'. I seem to be hearing this phrase all the damn time lately.

Isn't the world a strange place sometimes. I could have sworn that a huge amount of time this election has been spent talking about immigration. I was absolutely certain that both TV debates featured all three leaders arguing about who had the toughest approach to immigration. I was even pretty sure one of the debates was supposed to be about international affairs, not domestic affairs like immigration. I was pretty certain that the BNP and UKIP centre their entire political ideology around immigration, whilst the Conservative Party are planning to introduce a cap on immigrants, Labour are creating a Australian-style points-based system and the Liberal Democrats are creating an amnesty for illegal immigrants whilst peppering new arrivals to emptier parts of the country.

I was pretty certain that the Daily Mail runs huge amounts of stories about immigration, as does the Express, the Sun and other tabloid newspapers. These tabloids and some of the broadsheets also point out that if we reach a population of 70million because of immigration bad things will happen and life in Britain may well end. Immigration, immigration, immigration. One of the key issues of this election. Everyone is talking about it. When prospective and current PMs go on Radio 1 it is the main issue that young voters want to bring up. As far as I can perceive: everyone wants to know what is going to be done about immigration, and they are not shy to talk about it.

Yet it turns out I am badly mistaken, because of course 'You can't talk about immigration.' As Gillian Duffy so eloquently put it:

You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're … but all these eastern European what are coming in, where are they flocking from?

It is easy to simply mock Gillian Duffy for answering her own question, but if you look at it more carefully the more bigoted the question comes. For she isn't using 'Eastern European' to refer specifically to people from that part of Europe, rather she is using it as a catch-all term for foreigners of no distinct country, hence why she asks 'where are they flocking from?'.

Think of the way that 'Paki' and 'Pakistani' became used as a derogatory term to describe anyone Asian. I think 'Eastern European' is being used in the same way here, with the same argument to defend it: it isn't racist to refer to national groups. I get the feeling that 'fucking Eastern Europeans' is fast becoming the new 'fucking Pakis'. Both phrases are borne out of ignorance: 'I do not care where you came from, I only care and am upset by the fact that you are here, please kindly fuck off'.

The ineloquence of Gillian Duffy seems to stem from what tabloid newspapers have tried so hard to create; a kind of unthinking acceptance that the country is overrun with immigrants. What happens is that people like Gillian pick up the general narrative but can't quite remember the details, largely - I like to think - because their brain subconciously rejects them as bollocks. Look at the way she talks about claiming benefits for example:

But there's too many people now who are vulnerable but they can claim and people who are vulnerable can't get claim, can't get it.

You can see she is trying to regurgitate the narrative that she has been fed, but it doesn't come out quite right. You can see she is trying to say that immigrants get all the benefits whilst people in need get nothing, yet something prevented her. Maybe when people write about what a genius Littlejohn is, and how he can put into words what the rest of us cannot, perhaps there is some truth in this. Perhaps if Littlejohn had been responding to this statement he would have been able to quickly draw agreement from Gillian: 'You mean that we're showering immigrants with benefits whilst British taxpayers, pensioners and vulnerable people suffer?' Littlejohn might reply. 'Yes, that is exactly it' Gillian would presumably exclaim, marvelling at Littlejohn's mastery of basic narratives.

This seems to be supported by her next point that 'you can't say anything about the immigrants...' is just classic tabloid rubbish, as above: we don't seem to be talking about any other 'issue' in this election and the topic is front page material almost every week for most tabloids. The rise of the BNP is blamed on the fact that we 'don't have proper debates about immigration' or that immigration is a 'taboo subject'. Yet it isn't, it is a subject that can be discussed by people like Gillian Duffy on national TV, using the exact language above and Gordon Brown is the one being dragged over hot coals for having the decency and honesty to call her a bigot.

If anything shows how skewered this issue has become is that newspapers are now running with the 'Political Correctness gone mad' angle: 'look, you can't even make barely literate slurs against foreigners anymore, It's PC gone mad'. Newspapers use it as evidence that any attempt at open debate is crushed by the PC brigade, rather than Gordon Brown being compassionate and walking away before Gillian went on to say something really offensive.

It is not racist to discuss immigration, however, when someone knows nothing about the subject and resorts to attempting to repeat shit they have read in a newspaper, then I'm going out on a limb and saying: they are a bigot. They might not be an overt racist voting BNP and secretly admiring Hitler, they might simply be what I think Gillian is: just not that smart, another simple person being sold a big steaming tabloid narrative that immigrants get it all whilst those really in need - British people - are bumped to the back of the queue.

But irrespective of how bigoted Gillian Duffy is or isn't can we all just agree on one thing: not only can you talk freely about immigration in the UK, you can also freely talk absolute shite about it. In fact I would go even further than that: in the UK you can sell thousands of newspapers and earn thousands of pounds as a writer simply by constantly talking shit about immigration.


UPDATE:

The Daily Mail has predictably and depressingly completely proved my point with their headline today:

gillian duffy

You see, even when you mention the 'I-word' on the front page of a national newspaper with a criculation of over 2 million people, you still cannot talk about immigration.

Head, meet desk.


If you liked this post you might want to read the follow-up: 'A Talk About Immigration'.

Last Updated on Thursday, 29 April 2010 17:23
 
Comments (31)
31 Friday, 30 April 2010 22:48
It's ironic that "Gillian Duffy" seems to be of Irish descent (with her name), given that that country is historically the single largest source of immigration into the UK, both legal and illegal, for the past few hundred years, and that the Irish Britons constitute the UK's largest ethnic "minority". And considering that we had so much trouble with them inciting violence and terrorism across the UK until recently, it's a miracle we allowed them to stay at all.
30 Friday, 30 April 2010 17:19
Uponnothing
It probably isn't wise to make 'mincemeat' out of my blog post by linking to a Melanie Phillips argument, you know, given the fact that she is clinically insane. I'd advise you all to go and read Melanie's article over on The Spectator because it actually supports my case. People are generally smeared as bigots Melanie because they regurgitate views that they have read in the racist, right-wing rags. Hence the point that areas experiencing high numbers of immigrants are actually less likely to vote BNP, because they have met immigrants and realise that they are not all swan-eating criminal scroungers as these shitty tabloids would have you believe.

Tabloids are racist because they constantly lie about immigration and immigrants and if you believe those viewpoints without question and inflict them upon other people in semi-literate rants then you are deservedly labelled a bigot.

As for your second comment: what, the, fuck?
29 Friday, 30 April 2010 14:27
The problem with democracy is that even stoopid peeps get to vote....can we change this pleez
28 Friday, 30 April 2010 12:54
"Note the use of "these"; when somebody uses demonstratives: "this"/"these"/"those" and especially "them", it usually indicates ignorance or dislike. And when it's used with groups of people, it nearly always is a sign of bigotry." But onbiously NOT when it comes to the Israelis, "those" wicked evil people! Atrocious hypocrisy and covert racism is your name and this website!!!
27 Friday, 30 April 2010 12:51
Nice work.
26 Friday, 30 April 2010 12:49
Making mincemeat of the cultural negationists'"Racist!Racist!"'s "arguments"...
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/5953854/the-face-of-hypocrisy.thtml
25 Thursday, 29 April 2010 17:20
Gillian Duffy is a life long Labour supporter, a grandmother and works with mentally handicaped children. She is not the devil like some people are making her out to be. She didn't ask for this attention, she just wanted to make her point to the PM when she had a golden opportunity to do so. It's not her fault that Brown has turned this into a media circus.

I agree with Uponnothing article and the way the Mail et al have spun this tale, but I think villifying Duffy over this is very harsh
24 Thursday, 29 April 2010 16:07
Utterly brilliant article and some fabulous comments to boot. I am so sick of the right wing, ill-informed BS peddled by the Sun, Mail (haha, Daily Fail) etc, and even more disappointed that people believe what they have to say! Immigration is such a huge issue these days that EVERYONE is talking about it, and there are plenty of debates, ideas and plain arguments about it. I did a quiz on the Telegraph website where at one point you needed to rank the most important issues related to the general election. Doesn't it speak volumes that immigration was on the list, whereas health and education (my top two) weren't? I think priorities have been skewed somewhere along the line...
23 Thursday, 29 April 2010 12:53
the first I've read on this site

bookmarked
22 Thursday, 29 April 2010 12:18
Mrs Duffy asks "ll these eastern Europeans what are coming in, where are they flocking from?"

Bear in mind that this is, at this stage, merely a hypothesis, but could it be "eastern Europe"?

(Tolchocks gulliver against desk until Nick Griffin goes away)
21 Thursday, 29 April 2010 11:22
Yeah, immigration to the UK is about .5% / year of population. That's nothing! It's weird that instead of working to inform the population about the situation, emotional speculation and victim narrative are acceptable.

I posted some views after spending an evening with the stats.
20 Thursday, 29 April 2010 11:04
Comment 8: "why don't other countries have an open door policy?"
Which countries have open door policies and which don't? Do you know?

The immigrants the lovely old granny was talking about are 'Eastern Europeans', and there are NO doors within the EU. All Britons who wanted to could go and live in Poland, just as Poles can come and live here.
19 Thursday, 29 April 2010 10:27
Aha! Simon has had a good think about it. Very well put.
Jim
18 Thursday, 29 April 2010 10:26
Hm. It would appear that your comment there is the least thought through of the lot!
17 Thursday, 29 April 2010 10:22
Some of these comments are ridiculously ill thought out.
16 Thursday, 29 April 2010 10:17
Note the use of "these"; when somebody uses demonstratives: "this"/"these"/"those" and especially "them", it usually indicates ignorance or dislike. And when it's used with groups of people, it nearly always is a sign of bigotry.
I think Gordon Brown was right to think she's a bigot, but wrong to say it in public, with or without a live mic. The leaders of the other main parties probably would have thought the same thing.
Unfortunately, there's probably 75%-80% of the electorate who think the same way she does.
Ads
15 Thursday, 29 April 2010 10:16
You know, I'd have read this piece if it weren't for all teh moving and flashing ads surrounding it.
14 Thursday, 29 April 2010 09:37
Thanks, Uponnothing, for calling out this false meme.

I can't help thinking that there must be a efferent word than 'bigot' for the kind of person you describe. That word implies some sort of deliberate choice/agency (I am reminded of the furore over Simon Singh's use of the word 'bogus' to describe chiropractors).

'Ignorant' or 'Blinkered', maybe?
13 Thursday, 29 April 2010 09:23
She wasn't using it in the same way one would use 'Paki'. That's utterly specious. Suddenly her community has changed, without anyone explaining to her how or why it's necessary, or to be welcomed. A bunch of people suddenly aren't signed up to the same social contract she's subscribed to for decades. Her town is temporary to them. She's guilty of being a little small minded, maybe. At a push. Where they come from is immaterial, they could have been Kiwis or Welsh or from the other side of Rochdale. She's not a bigot, she just wants everyone to have the same relationship with the town that she has.
12 Thursday, 29 April 2010 09:19
I can utterly sympathise with Brown. He's an intelligent man and is as informed about the press as anyone can be. I don't doubt for a second that he heard the ghastly ring of the tabloid press in what she was saying, knew that her fears were ungrounded and merely stoked up by the Mail et al.'s screeching. It's understandable that this would get his blood up, especially if he needs to respond to her publicly, and is already stressed enough by the campaign trail.

'Bigot' might have been a touch strong, but I completely understand the sentiment. He was strung out and being confronted with Little Englander, tabloid-pushed nonsense.
11 Thursday, 29 April 2010 09:16
Looking at some of the other comments, PLEASE: there are not "X" amount of jobs which can somehow be distributed to British workers and foreign workers. That is the most STUPID thing people tend to believe!

Has it never occurred to you that, the more people contribute to an economy, the more jobs there will be? I.e.: If you want more British jobs for British workers, INCREASE immigration, so the jobs can be created. There is a unanimous consensus among economists that immigration boosts the economy, especially the export sector!

But try explaining that to the Duffy's of this worls: it is impossible, as they are not used to using their brains.
10 Thursday, 29 April 2010 09:12
Gordon Brown was completely right. The woman is a dumb, uneducated bigot. Sadly, a lot of the electorate are dumb uneducated bigots as well. Which is, of course, why the parties don't want to talk about immigration: it is impossible to have a reasoned immigration debate, when the likes of the Daily Fail and their ignoramous Tory and Labour-voting constituents dominate the debate by scare-mongering and turning off their small brains.
9 Thursday, 29 April 2010 09:04
That's all.
8 Thursday, 29 April 2010 08:51
She raised a fair a point, there has been huge influx of eastern europeans, a country only has so many jobs, nhs and education resources and having an open door like you liberal elite believe is not a great idea. (Lets forget aside that most immigration dosn't happen to the better off areas, just the crapy areas where it gets piled on in abundance, the only thing its good for is bringing peoples wages down, taking up jobs that could be used by the unemployed of this country.) So stop living in your Utopia where everyone and there dog can fill up a small island, why don't other countries have an open door policy? I think secretly the liberal ellite are all closet racists who look as immigrants as beneath us.
7 Thursday, 29 April 2010 06:53
I agree with upon nothing. I put "nick griffin" as an answer to "which person would you crap on if you were a pigeon for a day". It really brought out the racists in my class at college. I was outcast for it. The rest of the day I have to smile and nod politely whilst the majority complained about Polish people or people of a different colour.

Just wanted to scream inside.
6 Thursday, 29 April 2010 04:59
I get a bit tired of people telling others what their priorities should be. If immigration is the number one concern of some voters then it is. If the NHS is top of your list so be it. Mine happen to be the EU and the economy. That is not insanity it is democracy.
5 Wednesday, 28 April 2010 21:37
i've just seen a lengthy itv news piece.about how we don't talk about immigration... so that's that settled.
No
4 Wednesday, 28 April 2010 20:33
Immigration is not an issue in this country. It's only made that by people who don't get to the heart of the real issues, like the socio-economic problems in our inner city areas, sink estates and ghettoes. Perhaps there are ways of controlling some immigration to prevent some of the problems, but many of them were created years and years ago by using bringing people from the West Indies, Africa and South-East Asia to fill jobs we don't want to do. We've been racist as a nation to many of those workers and been as much part of the problem. Let's treat humans as humans. And sod jobs for British workers, how about jobs for workers full stop; none of these automated, robotic machines, telephone systems, etc, which don't actually know what I want.
3 Wednesday, 28 April 2010 20:04
Uponnothing
Is that I have to politely listen to some ignorant xenophobe ranting about immigrants because it isn't considered good form to tackle someone's racism. Instead you're supposed to:

a) Nod politely whilst screaming inside;
b) back away as quickly as possible and call them a bigot in private (like Mr Brown)
c) Try to subtly change the subject onto something more neutral.

If you do neither of these three things and you dare tackle casual racism you will be made an outcast, people will think you are 'bang out of order' and will often side with the racist. If it gets into the tabloid press then you become part of the nazi-like PC brigade and you are painted as the intolerant one.

I really hate nodding politely as more senior work colleagues spout casual racism.
2 Wednesday, 28 April 2010 19:34
I agree in many ways. But, thanks to the right-wing press, there *are* some things you can't say about immigration.

You can't say it's not that big a problem. You can't say it's inevitable in a global economy. You can't say you aren't going to be tough.

Any suggestion that you would allow or - god forbid - encourage future immigration has become political suicide, thanks to the daily diet of Little England xenophobia peddled by the likes of the Daily Mail and The Sun.

That is why we don't get a sensible debate about immigration.
1 Wednesday, 28 April 2010 19:30
The head of the RCN (nurses union) said this week, proudly, that the NHS is the third most important issue with voters in this general election, according to the polls. The top two were the economy and immigration.

I'll let that sink in.

People are more concerned about a Polish woman working behind the bar at their local boozer than they are about whether they will be seen quickly by a consulant if they become seriously ill. It's insane!

Add your comment

Your name:
Your website:
Subject:
Comment (you may use HTML tags here):
 
Joomla 1.5 Templates by Joomlashack